Curse

What Now · Dec 10, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

time out. lets think here. anet ruined pugging. think back to the days where toa was a mad town. pugs were the rage. heroes didnt exist. grind was long and tedious. when you formed a pug, you hovered the mouse over the name of the person that wanted in... armor, title, it mattered. now with the new 'no grind' attitude and handing out of money like crazy, 15k armor isnt really rare now and titles are a gimme. you cant judge players like you could before. now you have players that have no skill with the appearance of skill. players wanted to look 'leet' so they complained about too much grind. truth is, people will never be happy unless everything is just given to them, but then they wont be happy cuz theres no goals. also, no matter how much grind there is, someone will work for it and get it. (ex: starcraft = r15, well leeloof too, but starcraft > leeloof) titles used to be a way of telling how determined a player was. goals are what keeps people playing, yes, they want them easier, but then they arent as cool. anet is catering to people that complain, its sad.

Going to double answer here.

So if Anet is changing major things like grind, adding races, increasing level cap for money why didn't the first GW do the same? Did they expect more money with a new approach?

I'm seriously not sure here but I have to ask are the same people working on GW2 as GW1? Seems like people with a more traditional bland look on things than more people trying to make a groundbreaking new approach to an otherwise overdone and seemingly bland genre. But if it's the same people they must of lost their touch.

Now to your post ^__^ I must say it seems to be true. The more QQs on forums the more nerf nerfs and grind grind and this and that.

Anet, this is YOUR game, you can say no. You ALREADY MADE THE MONEY you have no further need to cater to people who already bought a game with no subscription fee. You felt no need to not f over tons of people who were here from the start with huge skill and pvp function reworks yet now you feel the need to listen to every PvEr who buys this game and goes WTF WHY ISN'T THIS LIKE WoW! Honestly, seriously?

When I first heard of GW2 I was psyched wondering how they'd further their branches into their own original game designs, functions, and depth in general. When learning what they are trying to be like now..it just doesn't seem like Guild Wars at all..not the one I picked up.

Years ago I was playing Runescape and picked this game up by request like what's a monk, why do you need a healer just eat a lobster or drink a pot. Everything seemed so strange and surreal in a way. Now I can't imagine doing anything else and I regret ever questioning the level cap because I love the game for what it is. With so many MMOs out there there's one for everyone and I loved this one to the point I still play no other game. Free MMOs like Perfect World as well show up all the time for each persons own taste yet people feel the need to leech onto an original game and conform it to social norms form my perspective.

Compared to most MMOs GW gameplay is buttersmooth if you think about it but I'm honestly not expecting that out of GW2 for some reason..just barely holding onto hope..let's hope they prove me wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Ahhhh but you leave out the most important ingredient of why GW survives.. No Monthly Fee. AOC tanked because it had a monthly fee and is grinding, WOW already has that market cornered so why play another? But, there isn't a high level no monthly fee game that offers the same as WOW does and that is where Anet and GW2 can jump right in and take off as the only high quality MMO to offer No Monthly Fee, but, also unique quality PVP play as well. It's going to sell, it's what the masses want and Anet is going to provide it for them in GW2.

Sounds like because people are poor they want a free WoW from your perspective...I wouldn't mind paying for a GW the way it was originally though. I didn't then when I picked it up, I would of paid monthly added onto the game also.

Fact remains though that past the initial purchase GW2 will NEED to keep selling expansions and such to keep going because unlike the one time fee of the game the server costs, maintain the site, employees to fix up bugs and add on to the game, will all indefinitely cost money. So if it tanks to WoW like so many others you will see and feel the impact. Game might still be there but it wont be the same game if you know what I mean.

Just seems like their original concept of a new fresh game seems to be changing and I really wish to understand why.

Bryant Again · Dec 10, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Ahhhh but you leave out the most important ingredient of why GW survives.. No Monthly Fee. AOC tanked because it had a monthly fee and is grinding, WOW already has that market cornered so why play another? But, there isn't a high level no monthly fee game that offers the same as WOW does and that is where Anet and GW2 can jump right in and take off as the only high quality MMO to offer No Monthly Fee, but, also unique quality PVP play as well. It's going to sell, it's what the masses want and Anet is going to provide it for them in GW2.

You can't ever provide the same amount of content, quality, and reassurance that WoW has without a monthly fee.

Longasc · Dec 10, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

We already heard that GW2 will feature larger (in terms of player numbers) instances that can also be entered and left easily, or anytime.

IMO: The focus on solo play and away from the need for a full party will dramatically change the game. You will solo adventure explorables like zones in WoW. Only for certain quests or dungeon runs you would form a party.
Which is supposed to become easier due to the changed way instances shall work, I already mentioned that. They should also improve the LFG interface, at least up to the standard of WoW. The addition of a simple LFG channel would be a great help IMO.

I hope they will give us challenging and fun gameplay. Challenging does not mean impossible for Joe Average, but it would require early areas to educate players about some basic tactics and give them incentives and rewards to become better.

For right now the trend seems to be to dumb down MMOs to pure grind with little longevity. Let me compare Eye of the North, which did not offer too much content, but had at least some replay value once you did all of it, with Wrath of the Lich King.

In Wrath of the Lich King, the zone mobs are pathetic and instances and raids have become so easy even in heroic mode (tanks have no problems holding aggro and all I do is to cast rain of fire like Ozzy Osbourne...^^) that things get easily boring. Naxxramas has not only been cleared by 25th November (formerly known as Nihilum), I already pugged the 10 man version and Sartharion was the only thing left before I cancelled my account (again, I play WoW usually for a few weeks/months and then I am usually bored). Then only thing left to do was to do daily quests for some reputation with various factions (attention: not a single faction requires nearly as much grind to maximize reputation as some GW1 titles!), and I did not feel like helping sea cows to mate every day.

I wonder what ANet is going to do. If they try to copy WoW, they will always fail. A fee-free WoW is IMO almost impossible, and if people wanted to play WoW, they would play it.

I wonder about their ideas for GW2, for so far we heard most about it the day it was announced - and then there was a long silence. A beta test im late 2008 did not happen.

So I wonder what will happen - big GW2 Christmas or New Year's Revelation by Regina B.?

The lack of news is a bit disturbing. We have seen a lot of MMOs fail or underperform recently. Tabula Rasa shut down, Age of Conan and Warhammer did not live up to the hype either, IMO.

cataphract · Dec 10, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Maybe that's why their keeping quiet and focusing on developing a game that will not fail miserably. It's a new philosophy of marketing - content over hype.

Quaker · Dec 10, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Social - people like to play with their friends. The idea of a "MMO" sounds great in one sense, but there is really little desire on most people's part to play with totally random strangers (in a co-op setting). However, in order to form Guilds and find new friends, some sort of MMO aspect is desired.
Some people suggest that players in GW are "anti-social" because the don't PUG, but that ignores the majority of players who are in Guilds and spend a lot of their time playing (socializing) with Guild-mates.
I like the fact that you can PUG, or play with friends, or play solo (H&H) if you want. Choice is good.

Grind - There are some games where you actually must grind to be able to achieve something, but GW isn't really one of them.
Yes, maxing out your titles does require some grind, but there is no demand that you max any title. There are no skills, weapons, armor, etc., that demand you have a certain title rank to use - such as a skill that only works if you have level9 in a rank.
Instead, you have PvE skills that do increase in power as you go up in rank, but they are usable (and powerful) at any rank. For example, [cry of pain] gives 93 damage per foe at SS rank 8 - which is easily attainable during normal play. The damage goes to 95 (+2) at rank 9 and 100 (+7) at level10. In PvE, the +2 or +7 damage wouldn't make any noticeable difference to the time or difficulty it takes a group (of 8) to accomplish a goal. In other words, the gain in power from maxing a title is not "required" in any sense, and is relatively small.
So, IMHO, there is not really much reason to QQ about "grind" in GW when the grind is really not needed. Do it if you want, but stop bitching about it.

Same goes for the HoM, btw. ANet has said that anything carried over to GW2 from the HoM will be cosmetic only - special armors and/or titles. If you feel that grinding your way to a full HoM is something you want to do - go for it. It will get you something in GW2 that says "I ground my ass off", but nothing important - nothing you "need" - nothing to grind for if you don't like grind.

P.s. - It seemed to me, from what little experience I had with it, that Age of Conan, with it's emphasis on PvP and blood and guts, was aimed at the 12yr olds who would find that stuff "epic". I'm glad it has sort of tanked - it might encourage NCsoft to steer away from that direction for GW2. (A lot of the recent stuff in GW1 seems aimed at 12yr olds, and it worries me a bit.

)

DreamWind · Dec 10, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You can't ever provide the same amount of content, quality, and reassurance that WoW has without a monthly fee.

Precisely...which is why you offer and refine something unique that WoW doesn't offer...quality PvP. You don't change your game to try and offer things that are already offered better by WoW.

glountz · Dec 10, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Sounds like because people are poor they want a free WoW from your perspective...I wouldn't mind paying for a GW the way it was originally though. I didn't then when I picked it up, I would of paid monthly added onto the game also.

I already stated that 1 year ago. People that can grind are poor people. Students that are lazy, unemployed people, housewives. They have a lot of time but few money. They switched from WoW to GW because it costed less. Asked for grind, because being efficient is too hard for them.
So now we have a grinder-friendly game instead of a casual-frindely game.
I hereby ask a Monthly fee for Guild Wars.

What Now · Dec 10, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Precisely...which is why you offer and refine something unique that WoW doesn't offer...quality PvP. You don't change your game to try and offer things that are already offered better by WoW.

Agreed which is why I don't understand why they are changing accordingly.

I MAINLY started GW to be honest because I got to play a human, it didn't force me to start as some ugly troll or something to be the best at what I do which is why other games put me off for a while. This too will soon go away it seems...

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I already stated that 1 year ago. People that can grind are poor people. Students that are lazy, unemployed people, housewives. They have a lot of time but few money. They switched from WoW to GW because it costed less. Asked for grind, because being efficient is too hard for them.
So now we have a grinder-friendly game instead of a casual-frindely game.
I hereby ask a Monthly fee for Guild Wars.

Wouldn't mind that tbh but as I stated there are tons of games like Perfect World and Runescape and Requiem and you name it that you don't even have to pay for to begin with. Why don't they just find one of the million games like that for themselves. Seems extremely weak of Anet to try and please people that would be better off in another game because when that game comes or when they can afford or are given WoW Anet just changed to get dumped like some teenage girl =\

It's your game it was amazing if anything add more missions and such and maybe skills. Professions and titles and all this other bull I didn't even start playing for so why add it. Breaking balance and telling people who you offered a game to escape grinding that to get any credit for your work you must grind it for GW2 seems like a slap in the face.

Martin Firestorm · Dec 10, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I already stated that 1 year ago. People that can grind are poor people. Students that are lazy, unemployed people, housewives. They have a lot of time but few money. They switched from WoW to GW because it costed less. Asked for grind, because being efficient is too hard for them.
So now we have a grinder-friendly game instead of a casual-frindely game.
I hereby ask a Monthly fee for Guild Wars.

You have no clue. Many GW players, I'd say most, are simply opposed on prinicple to paying a monthly subsription for any game. And many WoW players are the students and housewives that you think are too broke to pay a subsription. The sure way for GW2 to fail is to follow your advice--existing GW players would mostly move on to something else, and be replaced by...no one.

Master Knightfall · Dec 11, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

You have no clue. Many GW players, I'd say most, are simply opposed on prinicple to paying a monthly subsription for any game. And many WoW players are the students and housewives that you think are too broke to pay a subsription. The sure way for GW2 to fail is to follow your advice--existing GW players would mostly move on to something else, and be replaced by...no one.

Exactly I'm glad someone else understands the nature of mmorpging. Anet can call it whatever they like, but, the majority of people see it as an mmo and/or mmorpg moreso than some coop type game. I look forward to the changes when GW2 comes out. This one got boring and old fast except for the PVP which is still fun from time to time.

dwc89 · Dec 11, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

time out. lets think here. anet ruined pugging. think back to the days where toa was a mad town. pugs were the rage. heroes didnt exist. grind was long and tedious. when you formed a pug, you hovered the mouse over the name of the person that wanted in... armor, title, it mattered. now with the new 'no grind' attitude and handing out of money like crazy, 15k armor isnt really rare now and titles are a gimme. you cant judge players like you could before. now you have players that have no skill with the appearance of skill. players wanted to look 'leet' so they complained about too much grind. truth is, people will never be happy unless everything is just given to them, but then they wont be happy cuz theres no goals. also, no matter how much grind there is, someone will work for it and get it. (ex: starcraft = r15, well leeloof too, but starcraft > leeloof) titles used to be a way of telling how determined a player was. goals are what keeps people playing, yes, they want them easier, but then they arent as cool. anet is catering to people that complain, its sad.

Before PvE titles, for which IMO only a few mean player skill(and even that is questionable) , people just played. There were the PvP rank emotes that palyers would display, no PvE titles.
15k armor was not extremely common, but was not that tough to get if you put in some time - and really not that much.
As more people played longer, 15k and fissure became more common.

And there were players that had the appearance of at least some skill, they had 15k or fissure and at least 1 rare skinned weapon. Welcome to getting run and E-Bay.

For me titles mean you put time into something, aka grind or whatever you want to call it.

The community and Anet lead us here. Gotta love 20 mins speed clears of FoW in HM, I'll leave it there as that is not the game I started playing in 2005.